Generals File Formats

[DeeZire]

Lots of speculation, so here ya go;-

.w3d - 3D models (one file format is used for all game objects). The format is slightly different from Renegade to allow for vertex shading and possible inclusions resulting from the release of the DirectX9 API.

.tga - TrueVision Targa is used for skins on the models and pretty much most other images in the game, in the format of single textures and texture pages.

.dds - compiled object image data (skins).

.pso - shaders.

.mp3 - music

.wav - IMA ADPCM is used for sound effects and other audio.

.bik - Bink video format for movies.

.csf - string file (may possibly revert to .str which is easier to edit as you can use WordPad)

.map - maps, both multi and single player. May be possible to use WordPad for map mods although the 3D terrain and map data will probably be compressed base64 fashion into one section of the file again as the 3D data is based on LightWave .3do format which bloats the file.

.wnd - menus and dialogs (can all be edited).

.ini - INI files.

[CannisRabidus]

.wnd - menus and dialogs (can all be edited).
What sort of editing seems to be possible here, aside from appearance? Can new shell options be added?

Not on the topic, but how does it look for adding new Factions?

[DeeZire]

You can change anything regarding the appearance/color/text/positioning etc etc although a program capable of editing .wnd files is needed - Im hoping GUIEditl will be released as one of the tools along with WorldBuilder - its tricky to get used to but it does all you need. Not sure on adding new shell options, although there appear to be none to actually add over and above whats there already.

New factions are possible but tricky to do and much editing of several files is needed to achieve this - early on, it could simply be done through the Faction.INI file although the core code for the BETA and therefore the final release will not read that file :(

[Godwin]

perhaps we need an ini editor to link all the files together so that u dont have to open them all

and what are these 'shaders'? not familiar with 3d engines....

[CannisRabidus]

shaders are sorta kinda lightmaps on steroids, but more... but unlike lightmaps they are calculated on the fly

they were a big deal new gee-whiz stuff when Quake3 came out, here check this:
http://qeradiant.com/manual/Q3AShader_Manual/

also some info on how they are handled hardware-wise
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020116/

But, the use of shaders in Generals is kind of curious to me, considering the very limited lighting effects and the low-detail infantry... I'd like to know exactly what they are using it to do. Maybe mainly for the terrain?

[DeeZire]

perhaps we need an ini editor to link all the files together so that u dont have to open them all

and what are these 'shaders'? not familiar with 3d engines....

I cant find it now, but Im sure Olaf and Koen were discussing the possibility of such an editor on the XCC forum - for once, it may be a good idea because so much of Generals' functionality (and thus editing it) depends very very heavily on the interdependancy of several INI files.

In simple terms, in RA2 you could do everything for a unit in one file (RULES) then add its display parameters in another file (ART). In Generals, you'd have to make amendments to several files just to do something as 'simple' as adding a unit - FactionUnit.INI, Weapon.INI, Armor.INI, ObjectCreationList.INI and then some - trying to remember what you did and where can be a real pain at times and if you forget one small thing or forget to change one file then you've had it.

The shaders are used for stuff like water surfaces and other instances where the terrain should be kinda 'deformed' in a way - for example, a tank shell hitting a cliff may just generate a surface explosion (some sort of DamageFX like a lighting effect perhaps with some debris in the form of small rocks) but if it hit water it needs to create ripples. In this instance, a shader is used to create the visual effect on the waters texture image. A shader can also be used to create the effect of the water 'moving' (i.e. the surface of the water bobbing up and down rather than staying static). The downside of shaders is the impact on processor cycles, so they are restricted to stuff like the water, although Im sure you could add more/redfine how the existing ones are used via GameLOD.INI (Game Level Of Detail INI file has replaced the relevant detail setttings from the RULES files of previous C&C games).

[RVMECH]

csf was only used in the Beta. The current build still uses str

[Pepsolman]

I'm sure they'll have something close to Gmax for Generals... and maybe somebody cool will make converters like the great 3ds2vxl. Just as long as the units are easier to make than making 200 plus frames for a simple new infintry unit like on RA2. :tard:

[mad ivan]

I'm sure they'll have something close to Gmax for Generals... and maybe somebody cool will make converters like the great 3ds2vxl. Just as long as the units are easier to make than making 200 plus frames for a simple new infintry unit like on RA2. :tard:

Ahem.From what i understood from smurfbizkit it will be that hard (and perhaps harder) to make an infantry.The soldier it self will be easy but the Bones will be a real pain in the....ermm...booty ;) .

[Sypher_5]

Surley cloning an exsisting units bones and modifiing them for the height and "stretch"/"snap" would be all thats needed ? Whats the point in creating a new skeleton from stcratch unless it has more joints/limbs ?

Unless of course the units mesh model is not able to be brought back into an editor. ( reverse engineering as such )

With what some have been doing with adding new units such as a mech ( no evidence it walks or moves though ), It seems that the bone structure system is the same as that in RenX, the only thing not figured out is the skinning of textures isnt it ?

I"m curious to know wether I should download the RenX pack if I was going to make models or use the "world editor", of which little has been said. I also wonder if Discreet released that WS was going to use the W3D format in up coming games.

In respect to shaders, I've had some basic use of them in Q3A, and once you learn the format they seem relitively easy to use. If you cant figure out how one works, pull a working one apart until you figure out what makes it tick.

Thanks for the info Deezire. :)

[mad ivan]

Surley cloning an exsisting units bones and modifiing them for the height and "stretch"/"snap" would be all thats needed ? Whats the point in creating a new skeleton from stcratch unless it has more joints/limbs ?

Unless of course the units mesh model is not able to be brought back into an editor. ( reverse engineering as such )

With what some have been doing with adding new units such as a mech ( no evidence it walks or moves though ), It seems that the bone structure system is the same as that in RenX, the only thing not figured out is the skinning of textures isnt it ?

I"m curious to know wether I should download the RenX pack if I was going to make models or use the "world editor", of which little has been said. I also wonder if Discreet released that WS was going to use the W3D format in up coming games.

In respect to shaders, I've had some basic use of them in Q3A, and once you learn the format they seem relitively easy to use. If you cant figure out how one works, pull a working one apart until you figure out what makes it tick.

Thanks for the info Deezire. :)

Ok,lets see...YES!

What if you want to make...lets say a dog(or any animal).You`ll copy the bones code of the Worker and put them on the dog mpdel!?Bescides,i think that WW...erm EAP wont include a W3D Importer like they didnt do in RenX.
Another example:
You want to do that Mutant thing in the (UGLY!!!) in early Gen Concepts.You`re gonna attach the four arms to the two types of bone-arms?


EXAMPLE:

BONES:
AAAAAAAAA - first arm bone
BBBBBBBBB - second arm bone

A1A1A1A1A1A1A1A1A1 - first arm
B1B1B1B1B1B1B1B1B1 - second arm
C1C1C1C1C1C1C1C1C1 - third arm
D1D1D1D1D1D1D1D1D1 - fourth arm

You are gonna attach A1 and C1 to ABones and B1 and D1 to BBones?

According to Greg Hjestrom (RENEGADE PROGRAMMER) Mechs are possible thru animations in Renegade.I believe that it will be easier in Generals but if not-there is always the animations part!

If Discreet release info like that,WW...ahem-EAP will shot them for giving out that there will be w3d-based stuff :| .The World Editor (without "" ) will do MAPS ONLY:


.map - maps, both multi and single player. May be possible to use WordPad for map mods although the 3D terrain and map data will probably be compressed base64 fashion into one section of the file again as the 3D data is based on LightWave .3do format which bloats the file.


And don`t download RenX-Its nice stuff but you wont need it(if you dont want to modd Renegade).(i think!!!)

To be honest about shaders.I never used those stuff in anything!Back when i modded Renegade it didnt use shaders.Everything was kinda built-in-the-engine or w3d.

[Sypher_5]

In respects to a dog vs a human, the only limb that they dont share in common would be a tail. Just the center of balance and the pivot point location would need to be changed.

I understand that once you start to make more limbs thats where simply copying doesnt work. But modification of the model's properties would be possible.

By coping code you couldn't affect the vertices and pivot info ( use a 3d Program do to this ), you could affect the movement info, so say an extra arm that acts and behaves the same as the others.

I've trained in 3DSMax and basic Character Animation, I've made a multiple limbed creature. The trouble will be the tools to do it, included in World Editor maybe or RenX ?

You miss read what I said about Discreet, EA/WS/WAP would possibly be in the poop.

About RenX to Generals - Generals uses W3D format with more file information added, if the World Editor isnt to friendly and the RenX W3D can be imported into it and "completed" it'll be worth getting RenX. I already have Gmax so the RenX pack wont be such trouble to DL. But is it worth it ? I guess I'll wait till the World Editor is released and more people have comented.

[RVMECH]

Sypher..I suggest you download RENX...... WB is a level editor.nothing more nothing less.

BTW mods can be added to the map via a simple map.ini file slipped into the map folder.

[Sypher_5]

Thanks RV ;)

[Koen]

I cant find it now, but Im sure Olaf and Koen were discussing the possibility of such an editor on the XCC forum - for once, it may be a good idea because so much of Generals' functionality (and thus editing it) depends very very heavily on the interdependancy of several INI files.

I have heard of multiple editors being in development, TibEd 2 being one of them. If we're a bit further on, I think it could be a good idea to create an universal help format (XML document?), so all the other threads with Ini information can be accessed directly from the editor. I have yet to start on the help system... and it's probably too early to discuss this yet for other editors as well.

[Proclone]

Unless of course the units mesh model is not able to be brought back into an editor. ( reverse engineering as such )

With what some have been doing with adding new units such as a mech ( no evidence it walks or moves though ), It seems that the bone structure system is the same as that in RenX, the only thing not figured out is the skinning of textures isnt it ?



First off, my mech worked. It walked etc. That was the whole purpose of doing it.

Second Smurf was off base when he made it sound like changing the infantry would be hard. I don't think he really got what I explained to him about it at the time.

One thing we can't do is reverse engineer the w3d files. So unless the base skeleton's used on the infantry are released in an editable format they aren't going to be changable.

That said rigging a new skeleton and using that is NOT hard.... well sort of...

The issue there is that once you make a new skelton you need to make all the animations for that skelton again. However you can then use that template skeleton on any infantry /unit that matches the proportions.

This is all stuff that can be done NOW with the RenX tools, so try it out if you're so inclined. That's what I did with the Vulture Battlemech. The same thing I did to it could be done with the infantry, heck I used the infantry as a starting point in understanding how to call and organize the animation.

Hope that helps.[/quote]

[DeeZire]

Thats true, theres probably about 80% of a mod can be done now, based simply on what the BETA files showed people. The other 20% relies on testing with a full version and making any changes from all of the amendments which have arisen ;)

That Mech was awesome work BTW :) For a real challenge, try a 4-legged one like the MMII :tard:

[Proclone]

Honestly a 4 legged mech would be just as easy to implement. The walk cycle would just be that of a four legged character. (note how this IS harder than I make it sound). But it's not TECHNICALLY harder to do. A four legged cycle just requires a bit more effort to key properly since the keys need to be staggered approprietly.

Of course the cycle would need to be somewhat simple to accomodate for the transition animations used in Generals.

What I mean is that the back left and front right legs would need to move at the same time to start the walk in the transition animation, you couldn't have the front move forward THEN have the back move forward. The walk would need to be a left front/back right front right/back left cycle to really look good. (Or both left, both right). You COULD do the front forward back forward cycle too.. the only thing that I could see being an issue is some stuttering between the body position and the transition animation. But then again that might be unfounded, it's a test and see thing really.

In any event I don't see how a 4 legged mech (or anything with more than 2 legs) would be any different from teh games perspective since the variations would all be contained within the animation treatment rather than any game logic beyond the condition state to move or stay still.

[DeeZire]

AWESOME - so far then, I cant see anything preventing a complete conversion from any previous 2D C&C game :)

[Flyby]

Lots of speculation, so here ya go;-
.map - maps, both multi and single player. May be possible to use WordPad for map mods although the 3D terrain and map data will probably be compressed base64 fashion into one section of the file again as the 3D data is based on LightWave .3do format which bloats the file.


Deezire, where did you read that the *.3do is a lightwave format?
as far i know it is the Total anhilation file format...
Lightwave has the *.lwo or *.lws format

[Curator]

AWESOME - so far then, I cant see anything preventing a complete conversion from any previous 2D C&C game :)

I don't see why you would want to waste your time converting generals to Tiberian Sun or Red Alert 2. If your going to do that then at least take it one step further and develop a new storyline. Maybe your interpretation of Tiberian Twilight.

[DeeZire]

AWESOME - so far then, I cant see anything preventing a complete conversion from any previous 2D C&C game :)

I don't see why you would want to waste your time converting generals to Tiberian Sun or Red Alert 2. If your going to do that then at least take it one step further and develop a new storyline. Maybe your interpretation of Tiberian Twilight.

Umm, who said I was doing that? Im working on something much better.