[Waspo]

I am a moddeler myself And I notice a bit of difference in both models. From what I see they are NOT the same model. But I don't have a great veiw of them both.

[Sypher_5]

Get a copy of both models and get a hex editor, surely there's header info in the W3D. I've never opened one to find out but if there is then I assume they are all different.

[Flyby]

The only way to make sure the models are the same is to look at them in "shaded edge" mode so you can see the actual layout of the polygons and have a look at their UV unwrapping pattern, which should be almost unique for each model.

You should not forget that when you model the same real life model and with the same set of restrictions (polygon count) you have a bigger chance to obtain a very similar result....

I've been wrong before and since then I'm way more cautious to accuse people. It's not because they look similar that they are actually the same.
Judging from the pics , there is indeed reason for suspicion, but as long it is not proven 100% they're guilty of ripping, you should give them the benefit of the doubt.

[DeeZire]

^ very true, but IIRC this mod team was widely criticized last year for ripping (a lot of) work from other people - its hardly surprising that ppl think theyve done it again based on that reputation

[Flyby]

Correct deez, but I was also the one who made a judment mistake in that previous discussion. :S
The ship models they displayed resembled so much other freeware models I knew that I mistook them for being the same. It is only after a detailed comparison I noticed the model was different. Against all odds, it turned out it was the same type of destroyer being modelled, so naturally they were looking very much the same...
There aren't thousand ways to model the Titanic fe with under 800 polygons. To make the right conclusion then, you'd need to see the details on how the polygons are layed out.

From that I learned to be very careful with making assumptions like this, until I can dig up evidence that proves the copyright issues in great detail.

[killakanz]

Originally Posted by The End 007

Ok guys while the resemblace is uncanny I don't want this breaking down into a flame war, you've done well so far but I'm watching you, I know from experiance that these kind of threads can go down hill very quickly, so play nice kiddies.

It's ok man, I'm just flaming my own model cos it's crap :P

I guess I could take all this as a compliment, but in truth I'm not too bothered if one of my models gets stolen, as long as in the end everyone knows I made it

[Eradicator]

Flyby, I think your correct in your opinion, but take into account these points:

1) In the full unre-sized screenshot you can see a visible bone. They are the EXACT same color, size and shape of the bones I made for the model
2) The fact that the bone is even visible is a sign off a rip. I have two W3D importers and neither imports the Export Geometry option correctly.
3) The model is similar, but not exact in shape, but that is VERY easy to alter. They could have simply move a few vertices around which even I could do. Also the intakes on the side of the aircraft are identical in design and number of faces (judging from ss).
4) The skin uses the exact same method our skinner used in his early skins (of which this is one). The spotted grey and blue effect on the model is identical except near the wings where it was most likely gone over with a grey brush in order to remove the line which would have amde it too obvious. The grey over the wings is a solid color which does not match at all the style of the rest of the skin which indicates sloppy editing of it.

End007, I guarantee you nobody from the Second Wave team will resort to childish flaming and I do not encourage anybody else to.

And to flyby again. I don't think they have release the version of their mod with "their" harriers yet so I can't make a physical inspection of it.

[The End 007]

I'm just making sure, I know that these kind threads weather the acusations are true or not can easily turn into slanging matches.

[Flyby]

Eradicator,

I can only base my opinion on what I see here.
For the moment I only have a medium shot of the LOFS you posted and a small sized image of your harrier. With only those elements I can only say it looks suspicious, nothing more.

Skewing and moving vertices around will wreck your existing UV map. But because of the poor quality of the skin it is impossible to tell if there have been geometrical changes. Besides, they always can delete the old UV and make a new one.

I would label their model as "highly suspicious" for the moment because there are indeed some specific modeling similarities (like the way the tail is modeled) that would need an extraordinary coincidence. But.. I'm not 100% sure

[Eradicator]

Originally Posted by Sypher_5

Get a copy of both models and get a hex editor, surely there's header info in the W3D. I've never opened one to find out but if there is then I assume they are all different.

If it was imported then changed and re-exported that wouldn't work which this definetly was as you can see the bone in the bigger picture of it. I admit it is hard to tell from those pictures, but I am unable to obtain a better picture of their model so it would be pointless to post a better pic of ours. My points are still valid however and their team could easily put this to rest by posting their models w3d and dds/tga files. A post was also made in their teams forum with no response yet from their team.