[trex238]

I've noticed a lot of people keep asking about poly counts on models. The SAGE engine is quite powerful & can handle higher numbers of polys than is currently in Generals.

For people who keep asking about poly counts, remember that Generals is over a year old. As it gets older, its a good idea to start making higher & higher budgets on poly counts because people will have to upgrade their PC's if they want to continue playing the latest games.

For people posting models, INCLUDE the poly count when posting a pic! This saves time b/c someone WILL ask for it. As I said as Generals ages, people will be updating their systems, not all but most.

Also keep in mind what are you modelling. If you're modelling a basic tank, keep the budget of ~500 polys. It will be produced in large quanities. If you're doing a super tank you can up the ante a bit b/c a player will not be able to produce large quanities easily due to price.

Set a budget - setting a budget on the number of polys works well for keeping a unit from using excess amount of useless polys

Optimize - Optimizing frees up useless polys that can then be taken out completely to increase performance or moved else where to improve overall look. I remember seeing a shuttle with 13 polys on the wing when 3 would do the job perfectly. If your model doesn't need polys there or a smaller number will do the job w/o noticable difference, get rid of it.

Increase budget gradually - the SAGE engine can handle a lot of polys, look at Renegade & LotR:BFME or better yet other modder's work. The limit as far as poly counts are concerned is really just processing power. So as Generals gets older go ahead & increase poly counts, just keep it reasonable.

I assume that on a modding team there are several different PC configurations & even more on beta testers.

Here's a thought:

Ask whos got the lowest system performance & who's got the highest. With this information post a bare bones system requirements list & a recommended list.

I know that some do this but it should become standard practice, especially if your have higher poly units than in vanilla Generals or ZH. If your mod uses the same poly budget on units & structures as EA then just say requirements are the same as regular Generals.

For units high poly units price accordingly - got a 500 poly unit - make it a front line unit, 700~800 - make it a second tier unit, 1k unit - make it a hero. This doesn't mean any with higher polys is automatically higher priced. Look at the Paladin $1100, 253 polys & the Scorpion $600, 323 polys. If you make a tank that has 800 polys then obviously it shouldn't be your Main Battle Tank. Use your judgement & tell your modeller weither or not it's a grunt unit or elite so they set budgets accordingly.

So wrapping up:

For modellers

1) Post your poly count from the start
2) Keep in mind what you're modelling
3) Set a budget
4) Optimize
5) Increase budget gradually

For modding teams

1) Post a system requirements list
2) Price accordingly

[EvilViking]

Did I have a part in this topic?

[Pestilence]

your kinda contradicting yourself there Trex
3) Go ahead & make higher & higher poly counts as Generals gets older but don't go overboard too quickly
then you say
4) Optimize

but for the point prescribed yes it would be nice if everyone could make it common proactice.

[trex238]

@pcteen1 Yes, you're a mod leader so you set an example.

@Pestilence I guess I should expand a bit. Going from the example earlier the modeller could have optimized the wings & used the deleted polys to make a rounder cockpit.

Revised - see above

[EvilViking]

This should be stickied, it's good stuff.

[trex238]

I forgot one other thing for modellers, in particular infantry & aircraft modellers.

Weld vertices where possible. Extra vertices requires extra calculation, which means more system resources are wasted.

This isn't too much of a problem for vehicles but it is a major problem for infantry or any other models that use the WWSkin modifier. Try breaking your infantry models & get a large number on screen, then try the unbroken models. You'll get a lot more unbroken onscreen before you notice significant lag.

For aircraft it's a different story. Unwelded vertices still cause more calculation but more noticablely they can cause the "evil shadow bleed through" problem, but there's a catch. If you do this to a poly & make it 2-sided* then you create another shadow bleed through problem. In this case you weld what you can or just don't worry (a few here & there isn't the problem in aircraft like it is in infantry)

*2-sided (welded together but still 2 separate polys, not the geometry export option)

[Pestilence]

QUOTE TREX: For aircraft it's a different story. Unwelded vertices still cause more calculation but more noticablely they can cause the "evil shadow bleed through" problem, but there's a catch. If you do this to a poly & make it 2-sided* then you create another shadow bleed through problem. In this case you weld what you can or just don't worry (a few here & there isn't the problem in aircraft like it is in infantry)

it took me a while to figure out what was causing the shadow bleeds on my first every aircraft for genereals, but once i found the cause it was totoally obviouse.
to others it may not be so obvious what is causing the shadowsm. but for the infantry welding i think most do remember to weld all before exporting and actually probably do the same for aircreft but may do it over and over wondering why they still have shadow leaks. extra layered faces arent easy to notice.

[EvilViking]

I just wanted to mention that I coined the phrase "Evil shadow bleed-through", and it is ©2004 PCTeen1.


















Just kidding. I did use it first though!

[Pestilence]

yes you did, to bad that thread got lost with the recent restore, gos hand in hand with this topic.

[ComradeJ]

Originally Posted by trex238

I've noticed a lot of people keep asking about poly counts on models. The SAGE engine is quite powerful & can handle higher numbers of polys than is currently in Generals.

For people who keep asking about poly counts, remember that Generals is over a year old. As it gets older, its a good idea to start making higher & higher budgets on poly counts because people will have to upgrade their PC's if they want to continue playing the latest games.

I believe your view on this is not totally realistic, I doubt if even half of the people have upgraded their PC's since. Not just that, I own a 2,6 Ghz comp with a Radeon 9600, and Gen still lags form times to times.

For modding teams

1) Post a system requirements list
2) Price accordingly

Yes, the nature of the mod is very important. Some mods could have basic units with a 1000 polies, while doing that in a mass-mod (like Blitz II) would ruin it.

Most lag is caused by particles, but any bits help.