[smurfbizkit]

These are the questions/suggestions left over from the main topic in regards to BFME modding (the vast majority of which were answered by deezire). These are of questions of things that we would really like to have, or of things that we arn't sure of yet (that dz hadn't answered).

-Mod Command
This really needs to be working, it is such a shame that it was only partially implemented. The problem with the generals one is that not all the files in the big file created overwrite the generals/zh files. If it was like that then we'd have a very easy way for people to switch mods.

Aircraft
There are air units in the game, but they arn't anything like normal aircraft. This is a real problem since most of the airfield logic is hardcoded and without it we are really stuck. Is the Generals airfield code still in?

Machine Gun/Laser Weapons
Will the code for machine gun fire and lasers be in the game? those are mostly hard coded things and....arn't really featured in bfme. Not having these available could be a problem.

Tanks and other vehicles
How well would they work? As it is right now we are fairly certain that we can do this....since some units have turrets ingame.

WarHeads
It would be nice to be able to create our own warheads, since it was really limiting in Generals with only the dozen or so we had.

Re-release of Mod Tools
It would be ideal if they repackaged some of the renegade mod tools for bfme, maybe throw in some tutorials more specific to bfme and rts modding.

Modding Guide
A comprehensive guide to modding the game would be ideal. It would include a full module guide (similar to what deezire's for gen), misc smaller tutorials on things, and beginner tutorials (ie how to implement a new unit, etc.). Modeling tutorials and such would not be included with this...but rather with the mod tools. [of course you could just pack all of this together in one big "modding pack"]

Building/Resource System
Are we completely locked into the new "you only can build at specified locations" system? Same thing goes for the resources.

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What we can do. Right here I am going to use Blitz2 as and example of the difference in modding Gen and BFME (as well as how porting would happen).

Single Player- We will be able to make a fully dynamic map of europe and missions to go along with this. Now this wouldn't be easy and it does bring up some questions. What about air and naval groups? Could we set it so say...there is a group of aircraft flying around the tactical map? Or group of naval ships?

Multipler/Units- Tanks/Artillery are no problem, we can port those with ease. Infantry would need to be remodeled and for the most part would be easy. Of couse this brings up the question of missiles (should be possible) and machine gun bullets (is it in the game? or do we need to make projectile bullets?). Aircraft are a whole other problem (as mentioned above).

Buildings/Money- From what I've heard we can keep the civilian building capture system in as it is. The building system would be altered somewhat, due to the strict unit counts.

Sides/Subsides/Tech Tree's- Most likely we'd have to overhaul the exp menu...and set it up so that you automatically advance from the infantry-light vehicle stage to the medium/heavy. Or just use their new building exp system (ie use the war factory lots and you get better tanks, etc.).

For the most part Blitz2 could be unchanged for the port, with only a few major issues that would need to be addressed.

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I'm typing this up very late at night, but I'll try to summarize what I said above mostly. Modding for BFME will be just the same as Generals with a few changes. The changes are in regards to base building (most likely we won't be able to alter) and things that might be removed since they arn't used in the game. These possibly removed things are a problem...being missiles, machine guns and airfield logic. For EA to help the community they could do several things; re-release the community tools with updated tutorials, release a modding guide, leave in some of the gen/zh code (base building, missiles, mg, airfield), and fix the -mod command. Most of those things would not take a great amount of time and would help us out significantly.

The changes would be a great help, but either way the community is fairly well off for modding BFME. We spent most of the time on Generals just learning how to do stuff...ie object oriented programming, texturing and modeling (instead of more hardcoded inis and voxels).

[Wize]

Good points Smurf but,

When I thought about possibly modding BFME I thought about it from a different perspective. BFME is sage yes, by why not go for something different? Blitz is great but why not leave it on Gen/ZH and start something new with BFME?

I've had a few ideas about a new mod i've always wanted to create (that i'm keeping to myself atm) that would suck big-time in Gen/ZH but works perfectly in BFME. I think the approach to modding BFME is all wrong, we are talking ports and conversions rather than originality and the new ideas.

I mean don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with porting over and such.. I just think we'd be better off if we decided not to be more "portish" and focus more on bringing something new and unique to BFME?

Why create the same thing in 2 engines? Personally I wouldn't mind a change from the Gen/ZH mods we see and perhaps BFME is what will bring it. It just depends on what appeals to each person I guess.

[smurfbizkit]

I plan on heading 2 projects for B4ME, a port of Blitz2 (not a direct ones...somethings will need to be redone; such as the infantry) as well as a scifi project.

[DeeZire]

I wouldnt mind being involved in something different myself, the community could do with a change instead of 'porting another C&C game into the new engine'. Those things have their place, its always nice to play an older game all spiced up and all, but the formula has worn a bit thin and the projects dont usually get finished.

[Wize]

How True. Considering the engine any type of Medival Game is a definate ability in BFME. I mean I'll love playing BFME (Just because i'm an RTS Freak) but a change isn't all bad.

I think the only question becomes now with the different engine and the way it is done will we still see the gross amount of "lacked" mods or will we finally see the pinnacle of quality?

Time vil tell no doubt

[Flyby]

From what I read on BFME features, I'm not that optimistic that anything modern warfare related will be easy to make in BFME.
Although it builds on the same engine, it is clearly focused on a different game code that is more adapted to the LOTR game play. And as long we have not seen the final version, it is a high risk to assume they will leave all existing code in it. Personally, I doubt they will. They only need to omit a few aspects of modern warfare to make it almost impossible to make a WWII or modern warfare mod. Creative solution can find an answer to some problems but I’m rather skeptical that we'll achieve 100% success rate on these types of mods.

I think if you want to mod BFME , you'll need to change your mindset and look into a different direction: it will probably make a lot more sense to make a "kings" mod starting with BFME then wrestling with code that is geared up for modern warfare (like the CNC Kings mod is doing now).
I see great openings for historical mods, like Hannibal, the Roman Empire, Carthago, Egyptians, or any other historical/fictional mods, because the code fits better this type of big epic battles...


Making a WWII mod based upon BFME will be an as uphill battle as making a medieval "Kings" mod based upon the Generals code. It is not impossible, but very restricting in possibilities...

For the moment I'm scheduling the work on my own mod in such a way that I remain as long as possible "engine independent". This will allow me to switch back to ZH if I see my "modern warfare" concept is not easily implemented on BFME.

[DeeZire]

Flyby made an excellent point in another thread - the complexities are becoming larger in RTS modding, not quite to the extent perhaps of FPS modding but getting close. I just cant see myself going it alone on this one.

[Flyby]

Indeed.... from what I've just read, they had a team of 80 ppl working on it !!!!
and if the LOD system wasn't enough, if you're doing infantry, there is also a TON of animations that need to be (re)done, not counting the new emotional states...

With a TC for BFME, i'm not sure to what extend you'll be able to re-use the "old" Generals infantry animations, so it is possible that you'll need to redo almost all infantry animations...
(as SEALS no longer use 2 handed swords to attack their ennemy. )

[Wize]

To be honest I often wondered why W3D was ever used for infantry in Gen/ZH. I've long been a fan of the .god models used by DR2 and I have to say I often found on looks alone it was awesome, let alone how it turned out. I mean... you can see the face and detail even to the trigger on a Guardian's Laser Rifle. In Gen/ZH the infantry are well... crap.

I know what you mean about RTS mods getting harder.. the problem is I think the harder they get the more we'll see "low quality" mods. I remember DeeZire when you were talking about the how hopefully Gen would bring Quality modding to the scence and for the most parts it did but on the other hand... once people found out how the easier things worked it was no problems...

To be brutual if RTS continues down this line of technological advancements in engines and so forth I think the question won't be will the mods work more will anyone be able to mod it? I've been building a (rather cruddy) FPS and sure i'm not that worried if RTS games get to that point but... I rather enjoy the lighter side of modding RTS' bring back out..

Sooner or later we'll have our answer...

[smurfbizkit]

Originally Posted by Flyby

From what I read on BFME features, I'm not that optimistic that anything modern warfare related will be easy to make in BFME. ....
Making a WWII mod based upon BFME will be an as uphill battle as making a medieval "Kings" mod based upon the Generals code. It is not impossible, but very restricting in possibilities...

From what I've seen the only major problem would be from the use of airfields.