[NineBreakerFan]

Originally Posted by flak";p=&quot

Maybe you could pass on the information on how to do it to someone else who wouldn't keep it private...

Its pretty easy. I thought everyone knew how to extract things from mod.

[Renegade]

It is. Which is why you'll let him search, and not tell him right away.

[flak]

Bleh, so you're better at me than modding, congratulations.

I could probably whoop your ass at mapping but I won't rub that in.

[Renegade]

Heh. No, you wouldn't. For a simple reason: I'd turn on my brain, and look up the information I need. Granted, you might have a lot of things memorized about mapping that I don't know, but that doesn't mean that I can't apply them after looking them up.

And even without doing that you'd probably not be that much ahead of me. Granted, you'd probably be a little faster, but in the end, at least multiplayer-mapping is not very complex. And the important difference is: I wouldn't need to do much. I mean, think about your argument there: You say you'd own me in your domain, mapping, where the only thing you need to do is start FA2 and map away, while you can't even get the basics done in my domain, modding, which requires several tools, a brain, basic knowledge of the usage of search-engines, and the ability to not piss off the people you're asking for help.

In other words: Your "I'd own you in mapping" is the equivalent to "Oh great, you know how to drive a car...but in a running-contest, I'd beat you." - it's just stupid.

Mapping is not hard. It requires creativity, to think of a good map, but the process of making a map is not hard. Even more, and that's something you obviously didn't consider: I can map, too. It's not like just because I'm a modder, I never made a map. Granted, they were not even close to the works of an RVMECH, but the point is: With the help of FA2, it's included scripts, it's included help-files, and the internet, I could be a mapper just as good as you. I could make a single-player-campaign, wrap my mod around it, and have a full-feature add-on. While you still sit there failing to rip other people's stuff because you're too arrogant to take a simple hint and go use the search function.

Even if you are a good mapper (which you didn't prove in any way), that still doesn't give you the right to steal other people's content, and it still doesn't mean we have to shove our knowledge up your a.ss.

If you want to learn how to mod - fine. Go use the search buttons, go read tutorials, go get the INI-guide, go actually read the .ini-files. If you've done all that, there's virtually no real problem you'd need our help with. Only weird bugs that won't go away, and experimental stuff that few have tried before.

So. I'm a sub-standard mapper and an experienced modder with the ability to search, read and learn.
You're just an experienced mapper.

...but I won't rub that in.

[NineBreakerFan]

Look! Its Ra2: Reinforced the new mod --- Topic 2. Dont get started.

[AlliedG]

lol whatever he has a point, also Renegade, RA2:Argentina has better tutorials to map making cause there are png files attached as well.

[Renegade]

Thanks, I'll look at them in due time. Had a great idea for a map last night...now if only my comp would work...

[CannisRabidus]

Hey, I can map and mod too. Do I win? :lol:

@Ren: Yes I do search for myself sometimes when I've been gone from a place for a while. On one hand it's good to be able to answer a question directed at me that I would otherwise have missed, and on the other hand I find myself the subject of hysterical flame wars too. So it can be very rewarding :lol:

[flak]

Originally Posted by Renegade";p=&quot

Heh. No, you wouldn't. For a simple reason: I'd turn on my brain, and look up the information I need. Granted, you might have a lot of things memorized about mapping that I don't know, but that doesn't mean that I can't apply them after looking them up.

And even without doing that you'd probably not be that much ahead of me. Granted, you'd probably be a little faster, but in the end, at least multiplayer-mapping is not very complex. And the important difference is: I wouldn't need to do much. I mean, think about your argument there: You say you'd own me in your domain, mapping, where the only thing you need to do is start FA2 and map away, while you can't even get the basics done in my domain, modding, which requires several tools, a brain, basic knowledge of the usage of search-engines, and the ability to not piss off the people you're asking for help.

In other words: Your "I'd own you in mapping" is the equivalent to "Oh great, you know how to drive a car...but in a running-contest, I'd beat you." - it's just stupid.

Mapping is not hard. It requires creativity, to think of a good map, but the process of making a map is not hard. Even more, and that's something you obviously didn't consider: I can map, too. It's not like just because I'm a modder, I never made a map. Granted, they were not even close to the works of an RVMECH, but the point is: With the help of FA2, it's included scripts, it's included help-files, and the internet, I could be a mapper just as good as you. I could make a single-player-campaign, wrap my mod around it, and have a full-feature add-on. While you still sit there failing to rip other people's stuff because you're too arrogant to take a simple hint and go use the search function.

Even if you are a good mapper (which you didn't prove in any way), that still doesn't give you the right to steal other people's content, and it still doesn't mean we have to shove our knowledge up your a.ss.

If you want to learn how to mod - fine. Go use the search buttons, go read tutorials, go get the INI-guide, go actually read the .ini-files. If you've done all that, there's virtually no real problem you'd need our help with. Only weird bugs that won't go away, and experimental stuff that few have tried before.

So. I'm a sub-standard mapper and an experienced modder with the ability to search, read and learn.
You're just an experienced mapper.

...but I won't rub that in.

First off, you aren't even considering triggers, scripts, teams, or the actual modding you can do to the map.

Mapping is not as easy as you make it out to be, it would take you up to 6 months of mapping to produce some quality levels to play on, in that space of time, I could have learned how to mod, well, the basics anyway.

Your theory applies to the other scenario aswell, I could very easily go away and learn how to mod, which I'm actually doing right now, I run a mapping website and we're collectivly making a mod for Yuri's Revenge. I can do the basics, nothing on your abilities, but I'm getting there.

Read the INI files? You obviously don't know what proper mapping entails, there have been times I've spent several hours working on tube code and editing units for the level.

If you want me to prove I am in anyway experienced, I'll pm you a link to the DEN Christmas map I made, so you can judge for yourself.

Sorry for going off topic again, I just wan't to clear some things up.

[Renegade]

I had a lengthy reply here, but it reminded me too much of certain other discussions here, so I'll make this short:

- I did consider triggers etc. That's why I took multiplayer-maps as an example - they don't have that many of them.
- I certainly wouldn't need six months to create a decent map.
Maybe you're that slow - I'm not.
- I as well have made maps with tubes and mod-maps before. So I do know that part of mapping, and I am very much in the position to say that it is a nuisance compared to adding a unit through three INIs, creating and adding the graphics for it, and then balancing it in the game.
- In addition, that retort was rather stupid, as it was way off the point. The time you take to debug your tube-code is not a valid response to the suggestion to read and understand the rulesmd.ini.

One more aspect you're not considering is expansion: I may only have basic mapping-abilities, but these already showed me everything there is in the world of mapping. If I had practised them instead of modding, I could have stopped learning and kept improving. You, on the other hand, have just seen the tip of the iceberg.

In the end, it doesn't matter. You were the one who needed the ego-boost. I was just talking to Niner. Wow, your maps are better than mine right now. So what? I didn't come here to learn mapping. I can map. You came here to learn modding. And you ain't gonna learn it by publically asking for help with stealing Cannis' stuff and trying to beat me with your mapping skills.

You say you're learning the basics right now. That's good. Here's two other basics for you to learn:
1. Most question have already been answered. Use the goddamn search to look up what you need.
2. We don't like people stealing our stuff. Kindly ask, and you may be allowed to borrow something. But ripping will bring you nothing but trouble.