[pd]

If EA decides it is illegal to modify game contents then DZ can close...

[AlliedG]

this reminds me of when the RA2 community was arguing with "Delphi" to make CNC more mod friendly.

Of course Deezire has a life to live but this is a BIG event, every mainstream forum concerning RA2 has had a post about it.

There isn't even a announcement in news section of deezire.

Instead of trying to piss of the veteran community, why don't you show some more support instead of crying hysteria?

[Renegade]

People. Without going to be offensive in DeeZire's direction, I think we have seen clearly over the past years that his priorities have changed. I'm not going to judge his decision here, but it is pretty obvious that DeeZire's focus is on Generals and BFME now. So let's just let DeeZire decide. If he decides to not support this project, we've got enough places where we can discuss it, no matter what we think of his decision.

In other words: Even if DeeZire allowed us to talk about it here, I pretty much doubt he'll put Pro:Gen on hold and release a "pd" version of YR-DeeZire. All this decision is about is whether we're allowed to discuss exe-hacks here or not. And, quite frankly: What's the difference? It doesn't really matter where we discuss this, but if we discuss it.

I don't want to stab someone's back here, but I think this discussion has turned somewhat personal. We have proven that we can go somewhere else. This is not about letting us discuss the hacks anymore. This is about
a) How dares The End to close that thread? and
b ) Will DeeZire remember his past and support the next big step in RA2/YR-modding, or will he turn away from us one last time and prove that he doesn't care for us anymore?

And I'm not saying these are my positions. I'm saying this is what the discussion looks like from my point of view, and I'm saying it's useless. There's two possibilities: Either we may discuss here, or not. If we may not discuss here, we'll discuss anyway, just somewhere else. No matter what the decision is, nothing will change. DeeZire will still not be around, we'll still not have moderators, we'll still discuss the exe-hacks, and we'll still be here teaching the newbies and bashing the n00bs.

So just let DeeZire decide.

[AlliedG]

Fair, fair but as a human beings and modding fans of RA2, frustation just boils over, i think it was a acculamative effect but i agree let him decide.

[Nokunbash]

Wait a fudging second. What big thing have I missed out on while I've been away?


And where has my avatar/sig gone?


Andwhatareallthesenewfeatures?

[Hunt7s]

Well you have missed out on an Exe edit that allows additional countries to be added, rather than having to replace one.
You have Missed a forum update, so that you have some extra things, as well as having to buy, and activate your Sig, and Avat. So take a look around and get used to it all again.

[Blade]

I think a lot of people are getting a bit ahead of themselves and being far too hard on the moderators here (alright, I was a bit hard myself, but with hindsight I should have probably taken it to a private discussion). Although I didn't agree with it, they were trying to do what they thought was the best, even if they were a bit over zealous. I don't think anyone wants DeeZire ending up in trouble over something posted on his boards and while I am confident that just hosting a discussion is legal and that nothing will come of it (there have been other such discussions in the past, but this is the first with any real substance), it is not outside the realm of possibility that EA will get heavy handed and start throwing legal threats around since I doubt any of us can afford legal defense against EA. IANAL, but I believe that most that would happen is a cease and desist letter sent and any offending material just getting deleted.

On the subject of DeeZires lack of support, so what? As modders of the game we may find it big news, but lets face it, the following of RA2 is waning and I certainly don't want to see people trying to guilt trip, pressure or otherwise imply that DeeZire should be in on this development. He's already contributed plenty to the community and I'm confident any mods built on top of the new patch will draw from something DeeZire contributed already.

[CannisRabidus]

To address your original comments about EA's EULA, Blade, every EULA written pretty much says no one can do anything at all. That's the way these things are written, in typical legalese cover-all-the-bases fashion so that they can be used to defend against unforeseen future events. Virtually any mod for any game can be potentially shut down should the developer and/or publisher of the product choose to pursue that course. Or not.

In practice what matters is how the product is actually defended. Historically EA is notoriously lax in defending its products, which is why so many mods include assets from their games that are only slightly modified, and/or assets from other EA games (which is a violation of the EULA's from those other games). Many other developers and publishers do not tolerate this. But EA has consistently turned a blind eye to these goings-on.

Generally the line is drawn where the EXE is concerned. Inclusion of a texture or graphic, or even a model, from another game into a released mod project (as long as no money changes hands), is often ignored (there are exceptions of course). But modifying a game EXE can very often bring the legal wrath down. Again this is a matter of enforcement - some developers don't "seem to care" when the game is "old enough"... others will defend vigorously no matter how much time has passed since the game's release (these last do also seem inclined to eventually make the EXE open-source, which when you think about it serves to add weight to defending their legal position vis-a-vis their still-proprietary software goes).

I agree there is nothing really wrong about simply discussing violating a EULA as opposed to actually violating it, but I can also understand an unwillingness to go down that road among forum staff, because such a discussion could conceivably lead to someone posting a link to such a hacked product - at that point it stops being a theoretical discussion, leaving the onus on the moderators to need to police such topics more closely than is humanly possible.

[Daedalus]

Just to prevent any legal actions, keep the news of this patch to the minimum. If this gets discussed via the news on all big CnC Modding sites EA will surely find it one day. But keeping this on forums and a quite hard to find site will atleast give us some time ion developement. And if its finished and EA finds out, the Cp could be floating around the web, even if we are forced to take it down. The anonimity of the internet is our advantage, lets keep that and keep this underground untill it really needs to go out. If we want to prevent legal actions we're also smart if we count on the possibility of just finding time.

[pd]

We also decided to let it support UNCRACKED versions of YR, so only owners of the original game will be able to install it, which could make a positive impression on EA.